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Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

A developer wrote to me directly, and has given me permission to quote his email and my response. Since this is an issue I'm asked about every day, I will do so without editing, except (at his request) to mask his identity:

First, thank you much for all your work to help developers learn how to program Silverlight.  Thanks in advance for all that is yet to come.


This feedback is to express disappointment in Microsoft regarding the capabilities of Silverlight 1.0.  I'm getting tired of hearing that 1.0 is already capable of doing nearly everything one could want to do.  I know it can, because I've already used 1.0 for a client of mine.


But Microsoft has for years been boasting (correctly) how .net and Visual Studio make development quicker, easier, and with more maintainable code as well.  This becomes critical as an application gets more complex due to real-world needs vs. a very fancy demo. 

It is also why I believe Silverlight could easily outshine Flash/Astro/AIR for serious RIA.  So I'm getting tired of hearing, even from Microsoft employees, in so many words that the benefits of using .net in 1.1 are irrelevant.  I just want to express that there are other important reasons than just what is possible to do in 1.0, for anxiously awaiting to learn what is being planned for 1.1.

My unedited response follows...

I think you are completely correct. And I think we are very much aware that no matter how powerful 1.0 is, the community is anxiously awaiting the next version of Silverlight, for many good reasons, including the inclusion of the CLR, the ability to use managed code, tighter integration with Visual Studio, the availability of many drag and drop controls and so forth.

We know that it is imperative that we provide a list of what to expect and when to expect it, and we know that it is imperative that we get it right (the only thing worse than not telling folks when it is coming is to get it wrong).


I don't think there is anyone involved who doesn't want to get that information out as soon as possible, and speaking for myself I can say that my efforts to help folks see that 1.0 has a lot to offer is not a slight of hand to distract them from the fact that Silverlight will continue to evolve and improve (I certainly hope so!) but only to suggest that there is much that can be done with it right now; that there is no reason, per se, to wait for the next version before beginning to put it to work.


Those two ideas are not mutually exclusive: it is possible to put 1.0 to good use, while being eager and ready to move to the next version as soon as possible.

 

Published Friday, November 16, 2007 9:46 AM by jesseliberty

Comments

# Am I over-emphasizing 1.0? - Jesse Liberty - Silverlight Geek

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# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

Right now, the whole atmosphere can be summarized as "Unclear". Silverlight 1.0 *IS* a great and production-ready product. However, due to lack of information on "When" and "What" is going to be available on 1.1, is giving developers, an uncertain signal to use 1.0 and wait for 1.1.

Personally, I wish I never knew there was a 1.1 with Managed code and support for CLR and I'd have just focused on learning JS and stick with 1.0. However, what do you expect when you show 1.0 and 1.1 on the same day, side-by-side and demonstrate the huge benefits of 1.1 v.s. 1.0, that people are going to ignore 1.1 and do programing with 1.0?

What's done, is done and is behind us. What really would help for everyone to make a decision, is to have a clear road map with time frames. i.e., 1.1 beta will be released such and such date. This way, I and others can decide, ok should I wait for 1.1 beta or should I bite the bullet and use 1.0. We don't know if beta is around the corner, or six months from now or year from now.

All we need, is to have some communications from SL team as to where there are at and we can then make a decision.

Thanks!

..Ben

Friday, November 16, 2007 11:20 AM by BenHayat

# Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

A developer wrote to me directly, and has given me permission to quote his email and my response. Since

Friday, November 16, 2007 12:43 PM by Test

# Où en sommes nous sur Silverlight, en six points...

Voici un billet que je vous écris à chaud, de retour d'une semaine passée à Barcelone à assister au TechEd

Friday, November 16, 2007 1:15 PM by Christophe Lauer, Blog Edition

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

Hi Jesse

I somewhat agree with you, but have to inject some reality on my side.

The skillset required to do work in 1.1 is very different from that in 1.0. What you do in xaml vs. code is different (especially with controls), how you code your application is different, and obviously, the language is different.

It's very hard to tell people to do 1.0 now, as a piece of strategic advice, when they will have a much easier time with 1.1

Now, if you are a design shop, and/or live and die by JavaScript rather than .NET languages, 1.0 makes sense. Or more importanly, *unmanaged* Silverlight, regardless of version, makes a lot of sense for you.

For the rest of us who live and breathe managed code and write corporate applications, learning 1.0 provides very little real long-term benefit. If 1.0 work comes your way, it makes sense to do it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to chase that 1.0 work right now.

That all being said, I understand your position. 1.0 is out and working. It is production-ready, and it is certainly capable of doing a lot of things.

Pete

Friday, November 16, 2007 1:25 PM by Psychlist1972

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

I would agree completely with Pete.

As a .NET developer I think WPF is great and I'm exited about Silverlight but I have no interest in 1.0.

Friday, November 16, 2007 4:00 PM by zmorris

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

Stay the course, Jesse...

1.0 is released, 1.1 is Alpha

Knowledge learned is always good, skillset differences notwithstanding.

I will have to learn more things when 1.1 becomes baked, but nothing I'm learning now in 1.0 is wasted.

-Dave Campbell

MVP: Visual Developer - Client Application Development

Friday, November 16, 2007 4:36 PM by WynApse

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

The problem is Jesse is that by saying that 1.0 is already capable of doing nearly everything one could want to do you're inviting comparisons with Flex, but Flex without a half decent control model, out-of-the-box controls, data-binding and layout model etc.

Given that, Silverlight comes off extremely poorly. Why would I want to invest the time knowing that 1.1 will improve on, if not include, all of the above, as well as being capable of working with my primary language, C# and have the CLR?.

I understand that concepts learned now will be valuable later, but there is a major gap at the moment with SL between *efficient* vs *experimental* development.

But I know you and the team know this :), which is why news on 1.1 would be very welcome...

pq

Friday, November 16, 2007 4:52 PM by indigoblue

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

I actually dislike JavaScript but so far there is nothing that I am unable to do using it with Silverlight 1.0.

I'm reading and writing to the database and using Web services in the examples at my site: dnnsilverlight.adefwebserver.com.

The XAML is the same whether I use Silverlight 1.0 or Silverlight 1.1 so the only difference is my ability to code in C#. Yes I would rather use LINQ and data binding but the end result (what the user will see) can always be achieved with Silverlight 1.0.

I'm fine with those who wish to wait until Silverlight 1.1. I am enjoying the "head start" learning the technology that I believe is the greatest thing since ASP.NET.

-Michael Washington (MVP)

Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:51 AM by adefwebserver

# Silverlight Cream for November 19, 2007 -- #128

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Monday, November 19, 2007 6:20 PM by Silverlight Cream for November 19, 2007 -- #128

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

I agree with Pete, but take our situation in consideration. Silverlight have an overwhelming responce since it was announced, but do you really think it would have generated such responce if Silverlight 1.1 for .NET framework was not announced? How many developers would have responded to *only* JavaScript interface. The only reason I am intrested in Silverlight is because I can code it in .NET. I know JavaScript and I have been using it for that past 6 years but I really dont want to know Silverlight 1.0, I really don't and I just don't not unless I have a project where Silverlight 1.0 is a must. But when 1.1 is released I don't think I would use it.

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:34 AM by Cass

# re: Am I over-emphasizing 1.0?

Jesse,

I am a consultant, most often doing winforms and back-end stuff but doing a fair amount of ASP.NET over the years and JavaScript/HTML. I like managed code for lots of reasons and I advise clients (one today as a matter of fact) to hold on new technology outside of ASP.NET/HTML/JS until we are closer to SilverLight 1.1 unless they absolutely have to do something now.

I would love to hear about databinding, controls, etc. on 1.1 so we can start to understand what is possible. That lets me architect a roadmap now.

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:12 PM by wireplay

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